A question of enormous import, clearly.
Sep. 29th, 2008 09:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bironicWhy don't you see mentions of things like hemorrhoids and anal fissures in anal-intercourse fic?* Yeah, they're not sexy, but you do see characters fret over hygiene, STDs and other infections. You get enemas often enough. I remember at least one fic, maybe two, in SGA fandom where one partner forgoes anal sex on a particular occasion because of what he ate earlier in the day. And yet, I have no recollection of coming across hesitance to perform anal sex because of conditions affecting the rectum or anus etc., which affect plenty of people (e.g. the NIH says hemorrhoids strike about half the U.S. population by age 50).
*Okay, so by "you" I mean "I," and I have obviously not read anything near all the fanfic on the Internet, but I'd suspect that the amount I have read has to be representative of what's out there in some way.
Am I wrong? Are there examples? Are there answers? Is it fandom- or time-dependent?
Uh, sorry if that was gross. I've just been wondering about it for a long time.
ETA: Now with bonus comment!fic by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
topaz_eyes!
*Okay, so by "you" I mean "I," and I have obviously not read anything near all the fanfic on the Internet, but I'd suspect that the amount I have read has to be representative of what's out there in some way.
Am I wrong? Are there examples? Are there answers? Is it fandom- or time-dependent?
Uh, sorry if that was gross. I've just been wondering about it for a long time.
ETA: Now with bonus comment!fic by
topaz_eyes!
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 02:33 pm (UTC)Another factor might be the (non-age-related) tendency to gloss over the messier or less glamorous aspects of being human.
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 05:41 pm (UTC)Just to play Devil's advocate here:
most fanfic writers are young - Is that true? I mean, I know it seems that way if you hang around ff.net for any amount of time, but how accurate is that assumption?
and haven't yet personally experienced problems such as hemorrhoids - Possibly true (though I'd offer exceptions), but people have parents, etc., and then there's research. But if people's knowledge of anal sex comes from fic in the first place, we've got a circular problem.
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 06:34 pm (UTC)Let me define my terms: by "young" I mean anyone under approximately age 45 (at which point I would say one is middle-aged). Thus, I think the majority of fanfic writers fall into that category.
But if people's knowledge of anal sex comes from fic in the first place, we've got a circular problem.
Judging from what I've seen out there, many writers' knowledge of anal sex comes solely from fiction. (Usually I don't bother finishing reading these kinds of fics.)
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 02:46 pm (UTC)SO, what I'm trying to say is: we still have a very, very neat and clean conception of all kinds of sex, not just in fandom, and there is a lot of resistance to the idea of portraying the often hilariously nasty aspects of certain sex acts. The fact that we haven't covered hemorrhoids or anal fissures isn't surprising - in contrast to your implication above, we haven't even really covered hygiene, and a lot of people still refuse to deal with the realities of STDs (peeps who think condoms are "too realistic" or "take away from the sexiness of the scene"). I don't think there are a whole lot of enema fics out there. There's a real resistance to bodies, and the occasional grossness of bodies. I mean, I do it too, I'm not any better, but it is frustrating when taken as a whole. I like reading idealized sex most of the time, because I find it pleasurable, but I also find squelchy gross sex pleasurable sometimes, if in a different way, and it's harder to find.
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 02:27 am (UTC)And yet that was part of the point of your story, wasn't it, that real sex is messier and yet ultimately (eventually, with some work) more satisfying than perfect fantasy sex? I thought that was cool. Maybe controversial? Or at least not what a lot of people are here to read fanfic for? But still cool. Cool for being different, and something that I, for one, want to find more of in fandom.
The fact that we haven't covered hemorrhoids or anal fissures isn't surprising - in contrast to your implication above, we haven't even really covered hygiene
No, yes, absolutely. It's like an inverted pyramid, or whatever the exponential version of one would be -- where at the top, the bulk of stories are beyond-perfect sex, and at the bottom, much much narrower and rarer, are stories that deal with real(er) bodies, the grossness of bodies as you put it so aptly, and somewhere closer to the tip are the grossnesses that for whatever reason get even less attention than the rest. I'm especially curious why it is that some of that stuff gets more attention (even if it's still a fraction of a percent of fics in general) and other stuff less.
(Also, it seems to be the case even for the more pragmatic fics where condoms and lube are givens and the characters worry about hygiene. Strange.)
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 03:50 pm (UTC)I seem to recall writing a fic where House warns Wilson not to fart while House is rimming him, but I too prefer not to think of those things.
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 08:02 pm (UTC)~
House shot an irritated look at his bedside clock. It had been twenty minutes since Wilson went to the bathroom to prepare for the night's festivities. He was already naked and eager, more than ready to engage, everything was ready to go--except for the other party, who was taking his bloody sweet time.
"What the hell are you doing in there, Wilson? Hurry up!"
A dragging five minutes later, Wilson finally emerged, crab-stepping into the bedroom. House should have realized what was up then--though in his defense, other parts of his anatomy were ruling his brain at the moment. As it was, House was more annoyed that Wilson was still wearing his pajama pants.
"You're overdressed for the occasion," House snapped, gesturing to his erect penis. "Snap to it."
Wilson shook his head. "Maybe it's better that you go on without me tonight."
House blinked at Wilson's quiet demurral, then scowled. "Right. Last I checked, it takes two to indulge in the pleasure of anal sex. You and me, or more appropriately, me and you. One to give, one to receive--"
"Not tonight, OK?" Wilson lowered himself down onto the side of the bed gingerly and winced.
"Oh, sure. 'Not tonight, dear, I have a headache,'" House sing-songed in a mocking voice. Wilson shot a dirty look at him; House's eyes narrowed. "Your discomfort is a lot lower than that," he said, intrigued, studying Wilson's fidgety unease. His eyes widened. "Oh, God, please tell me it's not diarrhea, because that's just gross."
Wilson shook his head.
"That's a relief. And obviously you don't extinguish your sissy bath candles with your farts--"
"I wish," Wilson said through gritted teeth. "It might not burn so much."
House's face fell as the meaning of the words sank in. "No. No way. You're kidding."
Wilson swung his legs onto the bed and stretched out, grimacing with each movement.
"You're not kidding." House slammed his head into the pillow as he felt himself fall to half-mast. "Dammit, Wilson!"
"Excuse me for ruining your evening," Wilson said wryly. He folded his hands on his stomach. They both stared up at the ceiling, both a little awkward with the disappointing turn of events.
"So how long are you out of commission?" House looked over at Wilson again. "It's not an anal fissure, is it?"
"I think it's just hemorrhoids," Wilson said. "I felt some lumps just inside my sphincter. They were reducible. My guess is it should only be a few days." He turned his head towards House. "It's odd though, varicose veins don't run in my family--"
"Most cases of hemorrhoids don't have a cause. Drink your Metamucil in the meantime--"
"I probably could use some more fiber in my diet, more exercise--"
"And invest in stocks of Preparation H. I hear it's also good for reducing puffy eyes."
Wilson grinned despite himself. "I'll remember that for my next supermodel shoot."
House's mouth twitched with amusement. "Your improving your anal health is all well and good," he continued, hefting himself up on one arm, "but it still doesn't solve our current dilemma."
Wilson glared up at him. "I am not going to subject myself to an anal fistula just so you can get your rocks off."
"I didn't say that." He lifted one of Wilson's hands from his stomach and set it over his penis, while sliding his own hand down Wilson's waistband. "I can do without your post-coital flatulence for tonight."
After they were both spent, the lights were turned off, and they were snug under the blankets, House was drifting toward a satisfied sleep when Wilson's voice rang in the darkness of the room.
"House, what the hell did you mean by extinguishing my sissy bath candles with my farts?"
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)(That's one exclamation mark for each problem you mention, with an extra for the story being cute on top of everything, and one more for you being awesome and actually writing this.)
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 12:21 am (UTC)Hope you don't mind my posting this on my LJ tomorrow.
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:39 am (UTC)Of course, post away! It is yours, after all.
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 12:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 12:26 am (UTC)Trufax: I once attended a college sex lecture by Sue Johannsen. One student asked what rimming was. When she explained it, the consensus was EWWWWWW! I of course was LMAO. Clearly, the students at our local college are not in fandom. :-D
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 04:23 am (UTC)I guess, but I think rimming is really hot... as long as you extend the same, uh, soft focus *g* that you do to any other sex scene. Whereas hemorrhoids... nope, I'm not finding that sexy any time soon. Um... let's not take that as a challenge, shall we? (And that goes double for you,
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 04:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 04:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 03:59 pm (UTC)While folks may write House having leg pain or being tortured for five years by brutal prison guards/shadowy villains/bus drivers from Sandusky, they're not going to write about the person who is the protagonist of their story popping a Dulcolax in the morning.
ETA what
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 06:08 pm (UTC)I don't know. It seems like not only do most stories ignore the human-imperfect-body-function side of sex (which I totally understand), but when they don't ignore them, still there are some conditions that get ignored more than others.
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 09:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 09:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC)Well, trust me, I really don't want to read about yeast infections. I do think it would make an interesting story if House or Wilson (or Foreman, or Chase, or whoever) was having a problem with premature ejaculation or erectile dysfunction.
I haven't looked, but it's possible either of those could be a side effect of Vicodin.
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 02:34 am (UTC)Yeah, Side Effects. It's in my LJ memories. Mmmmm ...
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Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 04:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 06:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 05:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 02:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 29th, 2008 10:53 pm (UTC)I don't think I'm getting my point across very well. Gah!
There was a fic I read a while ago - excellent read, SGA AU John is a senior in college, Rodney a junior, they write the student paper together. John relieves Rodney of his virginity. It's a very, very hot fic, beautifully written. Also, in the sequel, Rodney goes to the bathroom the next morning and is freaked out by the effect anal sex has had on his bodily functions. He and John actually discuss that particular issue, and far from being gross and off putting, it actually enhances the relationship between the characters. Elevating the level of intimcy I guess. Anyone know the fic? I'll post a link when I find it...
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:35 am (UTC)I do get what you're saying in your first paragraph, but I don't know what to say about people's motivations for writing slash that wouldn't be an oversimplification or generalization.
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:54 pm (UTC)But, y'know, it's a legit topic and it's the kind of thing that lets all the porn-writing anal-sex virgins out there know that butt-banging isn't all roses and butterflies.
Granted, I don't particularly want to click on what I think is a standard PWP and end up reading about Character A ending up with feces under his fingernails (unless I know what I'm getting into in advance, but the subject of when and how to post warnings is a whoooole new can of worms), but most of that is simply because that sort of thing is almost always glossed over completely. Some people don't even like reading about characters ejaculating prematurely or fumbling with condoms or not having mouths like Hoovers--fic is fantasy, and in a lot of readers' minds, nothing should go wrong in a fantasy.
Of course, in others', fantasy is more savory when it's got the grit of reality to it, but there's a line between "endearingly true to life" and "why the hell would you even mention that?" with these things. As with anything, it can be executed well or abysmally, and the probability of success decreases along with the number of people actually making an effort. Because, face it, there just isn't a real call for hemorrhoid fic the way there is for first-timing or BDSM or even MPreg.
"So wrong it's right" vs. "so wrong it's...it's just wrong," I guess.
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Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 01:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: Sep. 30th, 2008 02:07 am (UTC)(hi!)